IRC log started Mon Apr 17 12:26:14 2000 [msg(tunes)] permlog 2000.0417 [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: varley.openprojects.net pohl.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: norton.openprojects.net gaarder.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: lewis.openprojects.net gaarder.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from gaarder.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net gaarder.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. -:- water [water@tnt-10-111.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us313.javanet.com] has joined #tunes re re er [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: forward.openprojects.net pohl.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from pohl.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net pohl.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. gah i have to reconfigure my mail client again anything new? 12:50pm has anyone seen mention of a proglang named either 'ruscal' or 'russcal'? not i i thought it meant pascal or something is bespin down? it seems by what i'v found that its sim. to pascal and used for the same, teaching water: no -:- coreyr [coreyr@net255ip95.parklink.com] has joined #tunes damn it, my mail's not working right -:- Ghyll [karltk@msx-osl-14-9.ppp.cybercity.no] has joined #tunes re ghyll water water: has your muse returned ? hm i don't think so that's a shame. well i have vacation time coming this is really annoying doesn't your slate tutorial stop in mid-step ? yes and don't bug me about "why isn't it done yet?" or you'll just piss me off I'd like to know the implications of the second syntax. I already know why. 01:00pm not much, although it makes some namespace accessing implicit ( and ) are supposed to enter and exit namespaces this isn't bad, because the namespace access can easily be inferred would the second syntax allow for something like this: (myObject x : z : w : 4) ? hm no sort of like a transitive assignment. not unless you specifically made accessors to handle that hm but maybe that could be done [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed LaGgEr (This nick is reserved by another user) you'd have to have accessors look to their siblings for values instead of outside namespaces [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com brin.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: irc.linux.com huxley.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) this is not difficult at all, in fact this sort of customization is how accessors are made in the first place btw, will the syntax be changeable to the same extent as in lisp ? since : is just an object that represents useful traits hopefully but the namespace stuff makes it difficult hmm.. yes. it certainly does. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from huxley.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Link with brin.openprojects.net[dancer@203.58.148.161] established. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: king.openprojects.net brin.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from brin.openprojects.net. right now, if you use only multi-method style slate objects in a single namespace as the target of macros, then you get exactly a lisp-style macro system brb [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net brin.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. ok * water/#tunes runs a fine-toothed comb through his mail client config a lot of weed ? 01:10pm * water/#tunes shrugs hm i connect into "mail.tscnet.com" and they tell me to "use mail.tscnet.com" instead :/ -:- SignOff coreyr: #TUNES (changing servers) I thought you liked recursion :) bah 01:20pm well it's time to call customer support afk bleh ok while i upgrade my mail program, does anyone have something to discuss? [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net services1.openprojects.net adding GLINE for *@*.techmagus.com, expiring at 956013883: Your domain is temporarily restricted from access. For more information, please email support@openprojects.net. eih: any progress on an eval.lisp? 01:30pm is slate small enough to allow for it to run on pdas ? well i can run smalltalk on a pda, so usre sure, even how do you estimate slate will compare to smalltalk, implementation-size-wise(tm) ? water: will be later i'm suspecting lately that making a slate-on-forth would be possible as well well, no byte-code vm for one the idea is to base the entire system around dynamic compilation -:- _out [magsilva@200.201.30.92] has joined #tunes well, byte-code does have its advantages atleast as a compact tree representation yeah but a *static* bytecode choice is what i'm talking about because having all code in the system (unoptimized or otherwise) represented as a normal fragmented tree on the heap could cause lots of odd problems hm ok namely, cache interactions and memory use [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed piccolo (This nick is reserved by another user) now, as to whether this byte code representation should be standardized or anything, no... it shouldn't... it is just an implementation detail yeah i was thinking along the lines of a combinator machine eventually mostly for tunes reasons water: combinator machine ? Joy iow or something like it 01:40pm one byte per combinator would be fine and allow for method caching at the byte-level [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed burt (This nick is reserved by another user) eih: thx for explaining to panic yesterday rmm, that was yesterday? yeah so says the logs well, i hope it isn't... (or else i really need to see a doctor) i've already told you such -:- SignOff _out: #TUNES (Leaving) ? who was that? the logs are 12 hours off... oh ok i just uploaded a little more on the tutorial with the intention that this gets built interactively 01:50pm [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed lux (This nick is reserved by another user) god damn! hold on, must reboot -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (The Tao went that-a-way!) -:- water [water@tnt-9-144.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (The Tao went that-a-way!) -:- water [water@tnt-9-144.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes 02:00pm -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Read error to water[tnt-9-144.tscnet.net]: Connection reset by peer) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed piccolo (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed burt (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed piccolo (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- water [water@tnt-9-188.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes * water/#tunes sighs [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed piccolo (This nick is reserved by another user) hm well maybe sometime tonight i'll get my email any suggestions on the tutorial? haven't looked at it again yet not much is added. i wrote a lot and then erased it and repeated the cycle [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Bloob (GHOST command used by Bloob_) 02:20pm water: what it covers is easily understandable. water: but you should perhaps go through the stuff about how accessors work. what about how they work? what do you think should be explained at that point? how you define one (or is this not decided yet) ? oh the problem is that i have to introduce meta-behavior next in order to get anywhere with it was that the next intended logical step in your explanation ? not sure exactly. i want to explain the difference in normal languages' objects' static meta-behavior and meta-behavior in slate and why it's important from there i would illustrate how various meta-behavior allows you to get the variety of flavors of slate objects 02:30pm which allows you to take an extemely simple core semantics and vary it to produce "real" programming language of various kinds does anyone see a straightforward approach to explain this to the newbie? [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net services1.openprojects.net adding GLINE for *@hse-kitchener-ppp*.sympatico.ca, expiring at 956017877: Your domain is temporarily restricted from access. For more information, please email support@openprojects.net. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net G-line active for tim[HSE-Kitchener-ppp85031.sympatico.ca] well, from a compilation perspective the static meta-behavior of those languages is not even primitive but is actually represented by other intermediate languages not sure i follow well, i never said it was a good idea :) i just want to know what you mean there well, there's a language implementing meta-behavior be it static or otherwise slate just raises this language up a little mm how though i don't thinks thats a good angle for a newbie :) no it isn't, but i still want to hear this explained i did explain it um, me, the listener, didn't get it the first time :) well, in the compilation process there is an intermediate language that actually implements the semantics of what a call or message send does below the actual language being compiled whereas slate places this at the level of the higher language itself i thought the intermediate language had more implicit mb than the original language in most cases it does and you still need it in fact what are you saying, then? but this is just a little analogy here :) perhaps a tricky and convoluted one, shrug yeah i guess so that in so-many-words explains that meta-behavior just allows you to tell the compiler what a message-send actually means versus the compiler deciding for you now that *does* mean something 02:40pm gah!!!! [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed seifried (This nick is reserved by another user) 02:50pm [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed seifried (This nick is reserved by another user) woohoo! boy i love the information age ;) what's up? oh it took me a few hours to get email, that's all oh, that was but i should have known that from the context of the statement and your preferences, anyway :) hm someone made a codemorph 03:00pm eh? a morph for squeak code * eihrul/#tunes ponders running a small slate system atop LinuxCE on an E-100. :_) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: lewis.openprojects.net gaarder.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) 03:10pm [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: lewis.openprojects.net gaarder.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: lewis.openprojects.net gaarder.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) the etymology of meta? 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[openprojects]!king.openprojects.net gaarder.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. 03:20pm hm ok back to the tutorial what concepts would be necessary for the average newbie to grok meta-behavior? hm ping pong any ideas? what's your current take ? in 20 words or less, what can slate's current meta-behaviour do ? well there's things like immutable object behavior, the fact that state reduces to behavior, the idea of references uh that's like asking what macros do in lisp hm in all simplicity, lisp macros is code that writes code. well i'd like to explain it in a way that doesn't involve the word "compiler" mo's work a little differently bmo's are objects that describe how other objects work that concept that you have code that when evaluated results in code is simple enough to grok. ok. then start off by telling them just that. yeah but fp is way different from oop doesn't mean it's necessarily any simpler to newbies. 03:30pm and meta-behavior goes beyoond lisp macros then start telling that all they know about objects until now has been a lie. there's a new world. the wonderful world of meta objects. lol are you serious? that should weed out the timid programmers :) not really. but it's a good line :) hm maybe that'll be the next section's title :) without being too knowledgeable about slate here, I think the main problem with your meta objects is that the knowledge about them is kind of clustered. clustered how? you have to understand a lot to understand the concept. various concepts are heavily interconnected. s/^/^the / sometimes i think eihrul groks bmo's better than i do (at least for tutorial perspective) yeah bmo's tie in everywhere sort of like smalltalk with it's classes then don't explain them all at once. how do you incrementally explain a concept that ties into everything? the concept of classes is fairly clean and easy. and it should perhaps be expected that the slate newbie knows how to program. that's normally done by (constructed) real-life examples hm water: i think i'm finally going to go out now and buy an E-100 instead of just lusting over it :) so bbl kind of like showing a series of 2d snapshots of a 3d building. "Say Goodbye to Classes... For Now" heh eihrul: *g* btw, you _do_ expect the reader to be familiar with oop, right ? yeah, although the first section might have a little stuff for that damn it i could sure use a muse 03:40pm abi: GLORP is the Generic Lightweight Object-Relational Mapping project at http://glorp.sourceforge.net -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp221.lvdi.net]) 03:50pm * water/#tunes figures out an angle to work with ghyll offers to play luser, if that helps (he's good at that) * Ghyll/#tunes rediscovers /me 04:00pm ok chk the tutorial page to see where i'm going (not much written yet, brainstorming) should i put in a little toy Slate prompt? [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Robot101 (GHOST command used by RobParis) hello? yes. not dead. a prompt would be good. and it's about time you started explaining how the objects work as well. ok i added a bit, including a prompt (online) can you think of a more interesting example or a good way to continue? I'd like to see the myPoint object dissected and after that, I'd like to see how one can build one. ok [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed hal-j (GHOST command used by hal-jason) hm i hid a lot of the object listSlot is definitely for end-users 04:10pm what does it do ? lists the slots in the object ? yeah but it skips a lot as i've written it (which is a UI-type feature) fair enough hm ok there's a little more posted now 04:20pm i'm not sure if this approach of "show 'em the next tool" is the greatest, but it's working so far fix the "it's" on the last line :) oh yeah thx * Ghyll/#tunes is a conniving nit-picker :) * water/#tunes works out the expanded slot list trying to figure out how much detail to show enough to wet the tongue, but no more :) hm refresh the page those slots are the big four the idea is that the regular listSlot only shows the relevant slots to the average oo user 04:30pm one thing you should explain earlier in the tutorial, if this is targeted at newbies, is that an object is no longer a molded in a static form, like in Java and C++. oh yeah otherwise the concept of listing contents and traversing namespaces will be harder to grasp. -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us313.javanet.com]) yeah it'd be silly to do that if all you had to do was look at the class while you're at it, tell them that in Slate, you have something called introspection, and give a micro-primer on what that is. for c++ people, introspection is unheard of. -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp60.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes hm re eih re while it will make the intro a bit larger, I don't think it's wasted. no it probably won't be people with smalltalk/lisp/self background should pick up slate fairly easily anyhow. at least they're not strange to the concept of meta-this/that. yeah although comparing slate to clos would help even them 04:40pm most likely. I guess it's common to know some smalltalk if you know lisp and vice versa. -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z) well i wrote a little bit on it, but it's definitely not done online, though eih: so did you buy it? 04:50pm ok. read the updates :) not much really i think my mind's a bit tired from work at least i can still read fine what do you do for a living ? i'm in the navy 05:00pm and you can't tell me what you do unless you shoot me afterwards, right ? :) heh i work on nuclear reactors... electronics and electrical distribution and they make me program in VB for the admin databases and paperwork systems no wonder you were a bit reluctant to talk about it :) well i just don't feel very talkative right now i feel a bit tired of pushing for so long then take a break. have a meal. i already did that 05:10pm it's early afternoon over there. go see a movie. seen em seriously ok. get some valium, then. geee great advice water: rmm, nope... twas' never meant to be (e-100) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed DJ (This nick is reserved by another user) a friend of mine said they'd hook me up with a blind date last week, but i haven't gotten any word back about it why not? [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed DJ (This nick is reserved by another user) 05:20pm * Ghyll/#tunes got a cheap nino 300 the other day [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed DJ (This nick is reserved by another user) water: the store was out of them so? any chance you guys know the linux vfs internals, or the cdrom internals ? #linuxhelp or #kernelnewbies it only takes 3 weeks to get one... there's a constant lag due to import quotas water: well, i think i'll save money up for a clio or something :) 05:30pm -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (The Tao went that-a-way!) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Marlee (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed LaGgEr (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- water [water@tnt-9-188.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes * Ghyll/#tunes should find his bed. it's 02:55 -:- SignOff Ghyll: #TUNES (*yawn*) -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp60.lvdi.net]) 06:00pm -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (The Tao went that-a-way!) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net ddent adding GLINE for bbs@develop.21cn.com, expiring at 956020416: Excess clones (again) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp89.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Marlee (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving) [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: sterling.openprojects.net mccaffrey.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from mccaffrey.openprojects.net. 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[openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed BobHartge (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed rehartge (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed dres (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed BobHartge (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- water [water@tnt-9-188.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed rehartge (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed BobHartge (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed rehartge (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed BobHartge (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed rehartge (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed BobHartge (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed rehartge (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed BobHartge (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed rehartge (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- lar1 [larman@adsl-63-204-135-209.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #tunes [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed lux (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp154.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes re am on my sgi now :) oh cool [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed drkat (This nick is reserved by another user) though, am telnetting into my x86 box :) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed drkat (This nick is reserved by another user) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed gowlin (GHOST command used by gowlin_) 07:10pm [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed gowlin (This nick is reserved by another user) hm * water/#tunes is scanning resources on the web for material for the slate tutorial hey take a look at this (to eih) oops sorry i didn't give you much of a warning i'd say it applies to lisp as well trying to set up box to put linux on it no prob the 2nd paragraph is the one i'm interested in i'm not going to refute that :) heh why not? ;) well, i mean i agree with what the paragraph says yeah i gathered that but, as to how one should solve the problem, i'm at a loss :) :P other than perhaps teaching neophyte programmers forth! >:) yeah you're definitely the "compiler guy" part of the slate team [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net services1.openprojects.net adding GLINE for *@modemcable193.48-201-24.que.mc.videotron.net, expiring at 956035059: Your domain is temporarily restricted from access. For more information, please email support@openprojects.net. oh yeah forth solves everything sheesh, it was a joke 07:20pm but the underlying point is that it is usually better to teach with simplistic languages sorry, i guess i'm not coming across right perhaps that may exercise a given concept in isolation rather than overwhelming a student still it doesn't help with teaching slate or, it could mean that slate will be hard to teach :) it also depends on your audience i'll be damned if that's going to be the case are you trying to introduce a person with prior programming experience? or are you going after total newbies? both with and without (like the reason for the two sections) because both warrant different approaches whereas one it pays to constrast what one already knows with the latter it won't accomplish much and it is harder to explain the utility of meta-behavior and such hm well i'll focus on making something every tuneser can read and grok, and specialize later 07:30pm hm "procedural programming is taught in high school under the guise of algebra" -:- _ruiner_ [DIY@ppp245.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes well... is it necessarily procedural? :) no not really i don't think i was ever taught side-effects in math class... sure you were... you had variables all over the place yeah, but i never redefined them! -:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (destroy what destroys you) hm although you usually only set them once so they were purely declaritive :) -:- nate37 [nate37@ppp-206-117-3-180.dialup.pcmagic.net] has joined #tunes or data-flow or whatever if i could get that evaluator from you so i could toy with ideas, it'd be a real help, you know [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed LaGgEr (This nick is reserved by another user) ok, will do that tonight soon as i get set up here :) thx hm hey nate have you looked at my tutorial on slate yet (which is still not nearly done)? hm the topic is gone no... wasn't aware that u had one.... www.tunes.org/~water/? [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed stpeter (GHOST command used by TheSaint) -:- water has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: Tunes - Free, Reflective Computing System: http://www.tunes.org/ || Slate Tutorial: http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-tutorial.html -:- yinzen [foobar@cx158568-a.okcnw1.ok.home.com] has joined #tunes re yz hello 07:40pm nate: anyway, plz read it and tell me what you think so far glad there is more in the tutorial, you know maybe you should just rant and free write all your thoughts about slate ... make no apologies about it, and then revise it and clean it up later =) just like programming, really. hm i doubt my free thoughts would make much sense to people so trying to keep track of all that in your head must be distracting besides it might make sense to enough people, the people that matter, the people that can help yeah i suppose well i'm still looking around a bit hm * water/#tunes chalks up yet another big difference between other languages and slate it's odd, i've managed to make variables and state completely uniform with the rest of the language nate: what do you think of the tutorial? 07:50pm * water/#tunes nudges nate37 water: still reading it... :) k this object as a directory interface is very interesting. very interactive ok keep in mind, this kind of directory access can be guarded ah, k i haven't written it up yet, but the meta-behavior idea plays into that water: hmmm... intresting... slate within slate. where? :) nate37: that is not an idea unique to slate result slot in the result slot, I cant wait for that to be explained in the tutorial ;) eihrul: in reading the tutorial, I know... still I hadn't heard of it before definitely not (although few programmers appreciate it) did i mention that in the tutorial? 08:00pm if u didn't, I got that idea at least.. hm perhaps because u said it combined a few language.... I assumed that it had been done before.... or perhaps I'm daydreaming :) sounds like the second part ;) hm * water/#tunes figures out what to write up next -:- SignOff yinzen: #TUNES ([x]chat) 08:10pm [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed seifried (This nick is reserved by another user) * water/#tunes uploads a bit more of the tutorial what page? same page Yay! i'm going very slowly at this -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us638.javanet.com] has joined #tunes mostly to make sure i get everything right, conceptually I mean what page did u update? http://www.tunes.org/~water/slate-tutorial.html 08:20pm [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed seifried (This nick is reserved by another user) oh.. heh.. I was ready the wrongs pages the whole time oh geez -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (stupid windows make me restart.) sorry... I was ready all the other slate stuff.... intersting... well the tutorial should be a bit more down-to-earth [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed seifried (This nick is reserved by another user) 08:30pm -:- nate37 is now known as nate37_away hey hcf any suggestions for the tutorial? havnt read the most uptodate version yet u were going in a good direction last time i read it w/ the mypoint poop i'l read the newer ver when i get back it's mostly the mypoint stuff that got expanded k * hcf/#tunes is away: (afk) afk ~1hr 09:00pm [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: verne.openprojects.net heinlein.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Scorpio (GHOST command used by scorpio_) -:- nate37_away is now known as nate37 [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: verne.openprojects.net heinlein.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from heinlein.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net heinlein.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. hm hey nate, how's the tutorial for you? [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed hal-j (GHOST command used by asdfasdf) water, my family was all nagging at me to watch TV in the other room... I didn't really want to, but it's kinda hard to read if somebody interupting u every 30 seconds.... it's good so far, though 10:00pm ok -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp154.lvdi.net]) -:- vvater [water@tnt-10-60.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Ping timeout for water[tnt-9-188.tscnet.net]) -:- vvater is now known as water -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp200.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes re re * hcf/#tunes is back [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed Bill_Gates (This nick is reserved by another user) * water/#tunes has been reading quite a bit 10:10pm mostly i've been thinking over oo ideas vs other programming languages and where slate fits in / how it can help to unify and all of this relates to writing a tutorial of course water: your still in the design phase of slate, or have u done any implementation yet? well eihrul wants to handle implementation, and as long as he actually make something, i'm not getting involved with that except to support it so ask him :) but there's more than enough design to do for me, even once a good language implementation exists ok...justa wondering if there's anything i could play around with :P ummm... u have stuff like (myPoint x), how is that different from other OO programming languages, besides the sytax looking a little different (or am I not that far in the tutorial yet where there is a difference)? well smalltalk and clos have very similar syntaxes every other oo language has a procedural syntax, though, so they don't apply 10:20pm but, what makes slate different, somebody that is just browsing through it may think that your just making ':' be the same as '=' and then puting the parthese around to make it easier to parse. [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed ravi (This nick is reserved by another user) oh damn it i forgot to talk about ":" in the tutorial well its half-way explained towards the end (i was supposed to explicitly explain : but i somehow let it slip) ok anyway, : is a message that has special namespace access and affects its sibling 'result' slot i was gonna mention that it turns the result into a clone of its state hmmm.. neat yeah all message-passing with no state ok... finished it. heh let's see Fare chew on that one for a minute or two >:) 10:30pm [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed localhost (This nick is reserved by another user) nate: comments/suggestions/confusions? Some stuff that needs clearing I think (well.. depening on your target audience), but I understood it for the most part... perhaps the biggest thing I don't understand is in the diffence between stuff your doing, and stuff that already exists. mostly on stuff where in theory it sounds different, but in actuallity it is the same... but, then again, I know far less than whos ever reading it probebly, since I havn't looked at other OO languages much yeah that'll be much more clear as i explain where meta-behavior fits in since it forms about 75% of the underlying machinery hm now i remember why i didn't include ":" it's supposed to be in the common shared traits of variable-objects hm but then again this is just a tutorial [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net break: sterling.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net (Ping timeout) yeah concept fusion it's ok [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Net junction: irc.linux.com huxley.openprojects.net [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net Completed net.burst from huxley.openprojects.net. [openprojects]!king.openprojects.net huxley.openprojects.net acknowledged end of net.burst. 10:40pm -:- SignOff nate37: #TUNES (boot up in it) eihrul: i suppose you've looked into Corman Lisp? -:- nate37 [nate@ppp-207-151-70-54.dialup.pcmagic.net] has joined #tunes eh? have you looked at corman lisp? particularly the compiler code? nope 10:50pm it has a free-for-30-days trial http://www.corman.net/ well, cmucl is free-free well this thing apparently has a nice dynamic compilation system i can't say for sure, but i thought you'd be interested well, from what i've seen and heard, it is just a normal lisp system -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp200.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes 11:00pm -:- SignOff nate37: #TUNES (changing servers) -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp200.lvdi.net]) [openprojects]Foreign OperKill: NickServ killed LaGgEr (This nick is reserved by another user) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- nate37 [nate@ppp-207-151-70-54.dialup.pcmagic.net] has joined #tunes [msg(TUNES)] newlog 2000.0418 IRC log ended Tue Apr 18 00:00:01 2000