IRC log started Wed Mar 17 00:00:00 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0317 ωνω meson [tachyon@206.82.129.84] has joined #tunes anyone alive?? hello hello please i want to know about the tunes project ωνω hcf [nef@me-portland-us1023.javanet.com] has joined #tunes 07:40am ωνω SignOff meson: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω hcf [nef@me-portland-us1023.javanet.com] has joined #tunes lo, nef hi, Fare why not modify the CVS review directly? afaik u wer here when i explained myself the 1st time yup. Do the reasons still hold? basically hum. bespin seems to be experiencing problems :( I'm *laaagged* to it 08:30am nef: still here? What's the protocol once I have taken your data into account??? 09:00am protocol? btw, while on irc, refer to me as hcf not nef 09:10am hum, what shall I do so you remove corrected links from your pages! my rev dir? im gonna leave it ther well, I expected that you would remove corrected errors! the actual review pages? let's start the conversation over. You decided to publish files like os.txt instead of changing on CVS directly thus someone else (e.g. me) has to do the work on the actual pages. now, when that someone does that work, at the time, i /thot/ ultima would do the changing how is the error report meant to be removed from os.txt? well, actually, it's me, and I'm having problem generating regexps at runtime in perl 09:20am what, like [change] means s/// ? yup but I can't manage to properly apply a dyn-generated re! I know it's possible, tho hum. Did something evil with eval, and it looks like it works. the [mia] links will a little less unfun to deal w/ since proper correction is context dependent 09:30am indeed what do you propose? I've fixed the => changes on my local pages thers no scriptable way to proper handling the [mia] sections s/per/perly/ well, one could insert "[MIA]" in the text if not present. i suppose 09:40am in Review/VMs.html, "o A web search found this page and this one" points to 2 mia links, why not remove the context? done btw, what exactly did core do? use cvs diff to see :) he updated a bunch of links, many of which where in your page already again, correcting directly on CVS would be easier for everyone, and avoid redundant work his work was redundant because he didnt check w/ the rev proj "leader" b4 proceding if he had, he would of known about my rev files, and applied 'em to the cvs, instead of doing the link checking himself 09:50am ultima seems inactive. Maybe even net-dead then core should of asked tril or u but, seemingly he did even try to ask ultima s/did/didnt so what about updating os.txt? should I modify it by hand, too? changing the file b4 all the corrections r done? modify a copy u keep, and make that copy the official that's what I mean. Thus, I'll modify stuff in ~nef! its up to u, perhaps make a http://www.tunes.org/Review/updates dir nope. I'll put all the info there on the pages, and delete the file! 10:00am keeping everything directly in the CVS is the Right Thing (TM) i didnt say it wasnt, i just said that i wasnt gonna do the cvs part of the work sure you can clobber os.txt now what's repelling about typing a three-letter alias to commit into the CVS after a modification??? I type "utu" and I get updates from the CVS. I type "ctu" and I commit my changes to it! i didnt want to do the modification (if you don't have CVS at home, at least you have it on bespin, which is not more difficult than editing os.txt et al) I don't understand your attitude. i was in a link checking mood, not a page modifying mood you modified files, anyway my own 10:20am is that a big difference? yes if you say so if i had written the review pages it wouldnt of been much of a problem why don't you, then? that would of took way too long i feel what i did worked best for me, as in, contributed while being independent of other's work as in, dealing w/ the context u wrote 10:30am well, 1) the change needn't deel with context 2) for the MIA you could just insert [MIA] for the other suggestions, you could insert [XXX - comment - nef] so how does this stuff effect anything? 10:40am I read it when I cvs update, so I can take measures. Also, such comments stays for reader/maintainer to take action ωνω LaGgEr_ [x@pool018-max3.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net] has joined #Tunes ωνω LaGgEr_ [x@pool018-max3.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net] has left #Tunes [] 10:50am done lang.txt done other.txt 11:00am done refl.txt done ui.txt done vm.txt 11:10am done with ~nef/html/rev/ 11:20am good boy π hcf/#tunes : away 11:30am ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us1023.javanet.com]) ωνω hcf [nef@me-portland-us846.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -chrome(chrome@stupendous.net)- [Global] herbert.openprojects.net will be restarted in 5 minutes. Should only be down for a few secs. Please excuse this interruption to your normal programming ... ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω hcf [nef@me-portland-us846.javanet.com] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω tcn [tcn@cci-209150250128.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes Fare: you there? 02:20pm ωνω SignOff tcn: #TUNES (Ping timeout for tcn[cci-209150250128.clarityconnect.net]) ωνω hcf [nef@me-portland-us846.javanet.com] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (changing servers) ωνω Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes ωνω Fare has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: Reflective Computing System - http://www.tunes.org/ ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us846.javanet.com]) ωνω hcf [nef@me-portland-us804.javanet.com] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes ωνω hcf [nef@me-portland-us742.javanet.com] has joined #tunes ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω \\\4R914 [RendermaN@208.136.155.122] has joined #Tunes ωνω \\\4R914 [RendermaN@208.136.155.122] has left #Tunes [] ωνω NetSplit: lackey.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [07:45pm] ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [lackey.openprojects.net] ωνω Netjoined: lackey.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #Tunes ωνω hcf [nef@me-portland-us742.javanet.com] has joined #tunes ωνω NetSplit: koontz.openprojects.net split from varley.openprojects.net [08:54pm] ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [koontz.openprojects.net] ωνω Netjoined: koontz.openprojects.net varley.openprojects.net ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #Tunes !lilo:*! ire 6 !netgod:*! eh? !lilo:*! my goof ωνω NetSplit: sterling.openprojects.net split from tolkien.openprojects.net [09:29pm] ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [sterling.openprojects.net] ωνω Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.cx] by tolkien.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.cx]) ωνω Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success ωνω Use /Server to connect to a server ωνω Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] ωνω BitchX: For more information about BitchX type /about ωνω Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from devlin.openprojects.net) ωνω Your host is devlin.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 (from devlin.openprojects.net) ωνω This server was cobbled together Sat Jan 23 1999 at 21 33:38 EST(from devlin.openprojects.net) ωνω devlin.openprojects.net u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 dioswkfcg biklmnopstv ωνω [local users on irc(13)] 5% ωνω [global users on irc(97)] 35% ωνω [invisible users on irc(179)] 65% ωνω [ircops on irc(13)] 5% ωνω [total users on irc(276)] ωνω [unknown connections(0)] ωνω [total servers on irc(28)] (avg. 9 users per server) ωνω [total channels created(67)] (avg. 4 users per channel) !devlin.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 23 (21 clients) ωνω Mode change [+f] for user TUNES ωνω Mode change [+iw] for user TUNES ωνω TUNES [tunes@bespin.cx] has joined #tunes ωνω Topic for #TUNES: Reflective Computing System - http://www.tunes.org/ ωνω topic set by Fare [Wed Mar 17 10:13:22 1999] ωνω [Users(#Tunes:5)] [ TUNES ] [ _QZ ] [ hcf ] [ Fare ] [ abi ] ωνω Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 ωνω BitchX: Join to #tunes was synced in 6.769 secs!! ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) ωνω lar1 [larman@208.254.226.223] has joined #tunes Hey <_QZ> hola <_QZ> i think im gonna release alpha 1 of brix on april 1st Cool I'll be the first to dowload it!! 10:50pm <_QZ> i decided to drop the system persistence the thing that manages threads... thats a software thing, right? Like the CPU doesn't have its own multitasking que thingie? Why? <_QZ> it was one of the main things keeping brix from being finished Ah, makes sense <_QZ> it does have UI and data persistence <_QZ> but making it restart the entire system and every thread in the same state was too much yah, that doesn't sound like much fun <_QZ> plus that doesnt work well for drivers <_QZ> since they usually require some kind of hardware init ok How do I make my apps 'trow a thread'? <_QZ> u define a memory space for a process <_QZ> then u just add mini processes that use that space <_QZ> a linux process would have its own memory space and a single timeslice entry How does the app communicate to the thread manager that it wants memory? <_QZ> but threads share a common memory space and each have their own timeslice entry <_QZ> when app A (bash) wants to start app B (ls), it will tell the kernel to run app B in its own memory space <_QZ> so now u have 2 memory spaces and a thread in each Yes, but exactly how does it tell the kernel?? <_QZ> or u could have app A tell the kernel to thread app B inside app A's memory space <_QZ> i use int gates 11:00pm <_QZ> the app calls an int to access kernel functions Ok, so to make everything communticate, use software interupts? <_QZ> ya Cool And that is fast enough? <_QZ> but threads inside a memory space can access each others memory so u can use fast shared memory for thread communications So a prosses is a contiainer for threads? <_QZ> ya <_QZ> i dont use processes in brix Why not? <_QZ> well by default a process has 1 thread <_QZ> and a memory space <_QZ> then it can create more threads right <_QZ> but in brix u send a message to an object, that object will get a memory space and the message gets a thread inside the memory space <_QZ> when the thread dies the memory space remains <_QZ> until its ram is needed by other stuff So you don't garbage collect? <_QZ> if u continue to send messages to that object then it doesnt have to keep loading the object and creating memory spaces for it <_QZ> yes i garbage collect <_QZ> immediate GC slows it down <_QZ> but by waiting to do GC it acts like a cache <_QZ> brix doesnt need separate cache ram What do you mean by object? <_QZ> data <_QZ> a text file, image, whatever <_QZ> if u wanted to play doom u would open a saved game object <_QZ> if u wanted to play a new game of doom u would clone the new game saved game object and then open that So you have a standrad obj template? <_QZ> the viewer for that saved game object would get threaded inside the saved game object memory space <_QZ> everything needs templates <_QZ> and u can clone a template, add some data and make that a template 11:10pm Sp the user tell the kernel to open doom.savgame the kernel loads doom.savegame as object savegame and threads the program doom in savegames memory space? <_QZ> no Ugh Then what happens? <_QZ> the user tells the UI to open the saved game, the UI sends the 'show' message to the saved game object <_QZ> the kernel then loads the 'show' action for that object type and the saved game object How does the kernel know what the show action is for each obj? <_QZ> it doesnt <_QZ> it loads the ID passed to it The ID? <_QZ> the UI knows the ID for the 'show' action <_QZ> ID = 128bit number <_QZ> device:user:package:object Have you told me most of this object and thread thing? Or is there still a lot more? <_QZ> thats pretty much it ωνω Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #TUNES Ok... Now what is device, user, and package hey tril! foo . brb <_QZ> hola tril <_QZ> device is an object on the boot drive in the admins space is brix released? <_QZ> Tril: april 1st tril: Can you set up vurtial hosting yet? sure _QZ: Uhhhh, like /dev/fd0 <_QZ> a device object would be a hard drive driver <_QZ> or floppy driver Tril: Ok, when can you do that? when ever you want? _QZ: User is the owner of the obj? Tril: What info do you need? <_QZ> user is the user space on that device what exactly do you want to do? do you have a domain? No domain... I want know.dhs.org to point to stuff on Bespin <_QZ> if the object is inside a package then the package field is the object and the object field is the object inside the package 11:20pm well, the first thing to do would be to get a domain. go to www.dhs.org and create yourself an account. Then create a static host under whatever name, and give it bespin's IP <_QZ> else package field is null and object field is the object Or know.whatever.org... doesn't really matter to me, the shortest free one www.dhs.org? Where do I sign up? I don't see any forms or anything _QZ: What is a package? Like a proccess? http://members.dhs.org/signup <_QZ> container <_QZ> like a tar file <_QZ> its an object that holds other objects or like a file itself or a directory or an array (i am making this point because these things are really the same, so they should be the same to the os) <_QZ> a package is like a device inside the device ωνω lar2 [larman@208.254.230.214] has joined #tunes Stupid Earthlink! ωνω SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar1[208.254.226.223]) i wonder if I should try to mount the debian install floppies and install it while running slackware without rebooting That sounds like trouble ωνω lar2 is now known as lar1 hmm, does linux support remounting / without rebooting? I think so umount then mount <_QZ> well i am off to bed bye <_QZ> damn dog is asleep on my bed Later Hehe Thanks _qz <_QZ> cya ωνω SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) we got rid of our dog he was too much trouble someone adopted him I love my dog nobody here is home all day, and he was a beagle, needed to be walked every 10 minutes well did you get a dhs account I am doing it right now Why doesn't www.dhs.org say that members.dhs.org is the place to be? there is a link near the bottom. 11:30pm Oh... I feel soo stupid I was trying to do this for awhile they will make the link more prominent when it is out of beta i suspect yah Long time no type... have you been real buisy? yes i was writing the tunes specs now this quarter is over, i'll release a draft soon So when are we gonna get down n dirty with some code? Hmmm, I am loged in to my DHS account... umm... now what? click new host Ok, I am at the add new host thign What is the type? Static Host? yup The hostname is bespin.cx? pick some name, and use my IP 206.63.100.13 So use any hostname? it will tell you if it is in use 11:40pm ok What is the mail exchanger? you can ignore that, unless you want the mail to be handled by a different host than the ip you put in Ok, what about wildcards? wildcards allows you to receive email at host names like this.is.a.really.long.name.lar1.dhs.org if you dont check it then those will not work Otherwise I get mail to lar1@.dhs.org? yes, and i can also let you receive mail to anyuser@hostname.dhs.org so that anyone can make up names to call you every time they send a letter (or you can use them to help identify messages) Ok, cool! I got that all setup now Can you point it to ~/html/pok/? what is the hostname? rumour has it the hostname is bespin.cx know.dhs.org i will set that up in a few minutes. you may have to wait a couple days for the name to start working. i read something about them checking everything manually. It says the next update will be 6 am PST... 11:50pm I am putting a robots.txt in that directory for you Why? for spiders spiders need a robots.txt? they look for one, if they are nice. so they will be friendly to my system Heh, ok [msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0318 IRC log ended Thu Mar 18 00:00:01 1999